Politics

Meadows, Rogers square off in spirited debate

By Bill Moss, Published: November 1, 2012

Hayden Rogers wants voters to know he's a native of the North Carolina mountains. Mark Meadows wants voters to know that Hayden Rogers belongs to the same political party as Barack Obama.

Although the candidates took on more substantive issues in their last and "most spirited" debate of the campaign season at Western Carolina University last week, an idle observer might think where one is born and who each supported for president were the most crucial issues.
Both objected to the other's line of attack.
"I've been here 28 years," Meadows said. "If we want to have this whole election come down to whether I was born here or not I think that's a pretty sad commentary looking at who needs to be your next congressman."
Pressed on whether he would vote for Obama, Rogers pivoted to local politics.
"I'm running for a seat to represent Western North Carolina's people of 17 counties," he said. "I will stand up for the things I believe in and the values that I learned growing up right here, whether that's President Obama, whether that's President Romney or President Bush. I deliberately chose not to endorse or participate in the federal election, to my own demise. I received much criticism from that, from fellow Democrats."
On the few occasions when the audience reacted vocally, the noise tilted in Meadows' favor.
A before-and-after survey by political science professor Chris Cooper showed that the audience was 46 percent Republican, 29 percent Democrat and 21 percent independent, and 88 percent were registered to vote in the 11th Congressional District.
Although no one switched intentions from one candidate to the other, the survey suggested that the audience thought Meadows performed better and helped himself among undecided or leaning voters.
Before the debate:
• 40% strongly supported Meadows
• 6% leaned towards Meadows
• 24% were unsure
• 7% lean towards Rogers
• 22% strongly supported Rogers
After the debate:
• 50% strongly supported Meadows
• 7% leaned towards Meadows
• 6% unsure
• 11% leaned towards Rogers
• 26% strongly supported Rogers
• 64% believed Meadows performed better
• 21% believed Rogers performed better
• 15% thought neither performed better

Here are excerpts from the debate.

Do you support grants or earmarks?

Meadows: As we look at grants, obviously one of the greatest things we've done is we've put a ban on earmarks and I'm for it because what happens is if not you end up trading votes and the people who end up getting grants are the most powerful senators and the most powerful congressman and really as a freshman whether it's Hayden or myself the chances of bringing an earmark back to the district is not good. Are there grants out there that support good services? I think the answer to that is obviously yes but one thing that starts to grow from a grant standpoint is we've got to go out and make the decision, do we borrow money from China to provide that need because really right now we are broke. We've got to figure out is it something worth borrowing money from China to do, is it worth increasing the deficit to do, but more importantly we need to start making good fiscal decisions in terms of cuts. In the last 3½ years we've had a 21 percent growth in the number of attorneys that the government has hired — some 6,000 new attorneys. When you look at that, that is not good sound policy.

Rogers: The challenge is making sure that the expenditures and investments we make as a country are well targeted and beneficial and that we get the maximum return on our investment for our communities. There is no question that earmarks got greatly out of hand. Congressmen were evaluated based on the amount of pork or dollars they could bring back. That's 435 of them competing for that. That is irresponsible. What is not irresponsible are grants coming into our rural fire departments for new equipment, for training, grants coming into our community colleges, our universities, competitive grants that help our area, that's not irresponsible. As for the question of earmarks, which have been banned in the House and the Senate, when you eliminate your representative's ability to influence and direct the funds that come into this district out of each specific agency the people who make those decisions are bureaucrats. They're unelected, they're not accountable to you. When we as representatives are able to direct funding to a specific need, it's transparent, you're aware of that. Earmarks don't always mean increased funding; they simply mean taking a portion of a department's funding and directing toward a specific project or need.

(In a debate during the primary) both Mr. Meadows and Mr. (Vance) Patterson said they would not take them. Now the moderator, to make absolutely sure that they were not mistaken, said, Are you meaning federal grants? And Mr. Meadows and Mr. Patterson said, yes, we would not take those because this is basically the problem. It is more problematic to me that our tax dollars are spent somewhere else and don't benefit the people who are paying them, and frankly this is a position that is a modified position of Mr. Meadows.

Do you support and endorse President Obama?

Rogers: I'm running for a seat to represent Western North Carolina's people of 17 counties. I will stand up for the things I believe in and the values that I learned growing up right here, whether that's President Obama, whether that's President Romney or President Bush. I deliberately chose not to endorse or participate in the federal election, to my own demise. I received much criticism from that, from fellow Democrats. The reason I made that decision was not based on a political thing. I am focused on running for United States Congress to represent people of the 11th congressional district. That's my only priority. I'm not getting involved in the governor's race, the presidential race or a county commission race. I'll represent people who vote for President Obama or President Romney or many others.

Meadows: I'm not sure there was an answer in there. Have I been critical of President Obama? Yes. Do I believe there have been a lot of failed policies? The answer to that is yes. Most of the people in this conservative district do not see that President Obama represents the mountain values that we hold dear. We've got Hayden here saying he hasn't endorsed. Is he going to vote for President Obama? He supports his legislation, or he does not. People do expect an answer. I've come out and said I endorse not only Mitt Romney, but I've been willing to campaign for him, I've been willing to look at what he supports and believe in what he says he can do for this country. When we see that there's an actual plan that can people back to work, that's what I'm supporting... Either he's going to vote for him or he's not. I'd love to hear an answer.

Rogers: This is exactly what's wrong with our politics. (laughter) You laugh and that's OK. Just that you can't be your own person, you have to subscribe to a particular ideology, that you have to saddle up with one candidate or the other. Are we not tired of this? Can Mark and I not run against each other, presenting ideas, and talking about what we'd do for the people of Western North Carolina. I did not go to my party's convention in Charlotte. Mark has taken a completely different approach. He went home to Tampa for the RNC convention. He was happy to go down to hobnob with celebrities at the convention ... That's not who I am and that's not why I'm running for Congress.

Meadows: We've still not gotten an answer. How do you know where he stands if he's not willing to give an answer.

Neither of you has served in elective office. How will that effect how you serve in Congress?

Rogers: It is true neither one of us has ever held public office. I have had the privilege of serving the people of Western North Carolina at a staff level for over five years. I am familiar with and have some basis of understanding of policy and the legislative process. I have been able to see first hand some of the things that work and are effective and many of the things that don't. The biggest challenge we face is not a shortage of ideas, is not a shortage of intellectual ability to analyze problems. It's a compete lack of willingness to work in a bipartisan manner to solve problems. ... We've got to get past this. Whether it's Mark's idea or my idea, this (partisanship) is not what you should base your decision on. ... I am the only candidate, out of the original 11 that ran that can go to work for the people of Western North Carolina on Day 1.

Meadows: What we've got to do is look at how to fix Congress... Do I have all the insider connections that Hayden has in Washington? No I don't. I'm a business guy that grew up poor that quite frankly knows how to make a payroll, who has done that, understands that regulation is not our friend, not our ally ... I also understand how the other things we continue to pass continues to hamper us.

What is your stand on the Affordable Care Act?

Meadows: I'm for the repeal and that's where Hayden and I are different. I'm for the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. It was passed under Democratic control without any Republican input. We talk about gridlock all the time, (yet) it passed with Democratic control against the will of the people. Almost 73 percent of the people were against it and yet we put it in place. I would be for a full repeal. I don't believe we should have an independent board of 15 people, replacing our doctor, because when we do that we have appointed bureaucrats that make life and death decisions. Obviously the health care (under their parents' plan) for people that are 26 years of age, we could do that with private insurance, the other thing we'd look at (keeping) is pre-existing conditions.

Rogers: I was working with Congressman Shuler through the whole health care debate. We voted against it twice, not because we didn't think health care was a problem, not because we didn't think it needed to be addressed, because we didn't think the bill did enough to curb costs. The reason I don't support repeal is that like it or not, there were some good components of the Affordable Care Act. We reduced the cost of prescription for seniors, the doughnut hole, part of that was closed. ... We've got to control costs. The first thing you do is you grant most favored nation status to ourselves. We pay more for drugs than any country in the world.

How will your background help you serve the 11th congressional district?

Meadows: I've been here 28 years, if we want to have this whole election come down to whether I was born here or nor I think that's a pretty sad commentary looking at who needs to be your next congressman. The next thing I know he's going to be telling you that I'm some Frenchmen because I was born on a military base when my dad was based in France. If the debate gets down to the fact that I'm not from here and he is, then obviously he wins. But really the debate ought to be about who has the best plan to create jobs and get Western North Carolina going again. I have plan. We've yet to see Hayden Rogers' plan.

Rogers: What I am being critical of is participating. (A voter from Jackson County) said I've lived here my whole life and I've never seen that man (Meadows), not even at a car wreck, and if any of you grew up here, you know we all go to car wrecks. Mr. Meadows has chosen not to participate. He has secluded himself.

Meadows: If it's going to get down to political attacks, I'm not going to go there. For him to challenge whether I've been active in my community or not, it's not fair and it's not right. But here's the thing. Mountain values are all about speaking the truths. I've got friends who have been around here for generations. If you have to be born here to have mountain values, I've got two children who were born here, so I can ask them about mountain values. I don't have to worry about getting three votes to figure out if God is someone that we need to acknowledge (as the Democratic Party did). That's a mountain value as well and I'm proud that our party didn't have to argue over that.